When someone tells you they are pro-life, they aren't trying to make a statement about themselves, they are passive aggressively commenting on others. Have you ever met a sane adult who is anti-life/pro-death? If you support the legality of abortions this is what is being implied about YOU every time someone calls them self "pro-life".
Abortion is a very serious issue. Adults cannot discuss serious matters when framed in a intellectually dishonest manner. According to polls on Sean Hannity's website if you call yourself "pro-life" you probably also support capital punishment. I would say there a good chance you love the military as well. Many would call you a hypocrite but you are not. You did however allow us to have a conversation about abortion without talking about abortion. Thanks!
No one likes abortions. Everyone likes life.
Pro-Life=Bullshit
As you may know republicans are in the process of defunding planned parent hood. You also may know that while democrats love to spend money on things that don't work republicans love to cut spending on things that do.
Planed parenthood works, especially for "pro-lifers". Why? Well I'm going to make some more assumptions about "pro-lifers". They probably don't talk to their children about sex other then to tell them its bad/evil or its only for married people. This works great on an Amish commune. I don't live there. If your reading this, neither do you. Maybe you should prepare your child for reality since that's where you live. It's your disconnection from reality that creates the void that planned parenthood fills. They provide education and contraceptives/birth control and other medical services that could not be acquired otherwise because of money or embarrassment.
Against abortions+Against birth control+Not living in a commune=Madness
Madness=More Abortions
If you don't do anything constructive to prevent unwanted pregnancy (telling people god doesn't like it, does not count) then we cannot take your opposition to abortions seriously.
The argument is, "we don't want tax dollars paying for abortions". Planned Parenthood says tax dollars only go toward education, contraceptives, other women's health services, etc, and woman pay for their own abortions. I agree money is fungible and it seems kinda gray, but I don't care either way. Why?
1. Because regardless of who pays for it and whether or not it's legal ABORTIONS ARE NOT GOING AWAY. Just like drugs, they only become more dangerous and allow the government to unjustly label more of our citizens as criminals.
2. (WARNING: YOU ARE ABOUT TO READ UNADULTERATED TRUTH) It's not just the mother who has to live with her mistake. It's all of us, and to illustrate my point I will quote one of the most ridiculous “pro-lifers”. The following is from Ann Coulter's book Guilty: Liberal "Victims" and Their Assault on America:
By 1996, 70 percent of inmates in state juvenile detention centers serving long-term sentences were raised by single mothers. Seventy-two percent of juvenile murderers and 60 percent of rapists come from single-mother homes. Seventy percent of teenage births, dropouts, suicides, runaways, juvenile delinquents, and child murderers involve children raised by single mothers. Girls raised without fathers are more sexually promiscuous and more likely to end up divorced. A 1990 study by the Progressive Policy Institute showed that after controlling for single motherhood, the difference between black and white crime rates disappeared.
Various studies have come up with slightly different numbers, but all the figures are grim. According to the Index of Leading Cultural Indicators, children from single-parent families account for 63 percent of all youth suicides, 70 percent of all teenage pregnancies, 71 percent of all adolescent chemical/substance abuse, 80 percent of all prison inmates, and 90 percent of all homeless and runaway children.
A study cited in the Village Voice produced similar numbers. It found that children brought up in single-mother homes 'are five times more likely to commit suicide, nine times more likely to drop out of high school, 10 times more likely to abuse chemical substances, 14 times more likely to commit rape (for the boys), 20 times more likely to end up in prison, and 32 times more likely to run away from home.' Single motherhood is like a farm team for future criminals and social outcasts.
....Many of these studies, for example, are from the 1990s, when the percentage of teenagers raised by single parents was lower than it is today. In 1990, 28 percent of children under eighteen were being raised in one-parent homes (mother or father), and 71 percent were being raised in two-parent homes. By 2005, more than one-third of all babies born in the United States were illegitimate. That's a lot of social problems coming.
...Imagine an America with 70 percent fewer juvenile delinquents, 70 percent fewer teenage births, 63 to 70 percent fewer teenage suicides, and 70 percent to 90 percent fewer runaways and you will appreciate what the sainted single mothers have accomplished." -- P.37-38
"A 2008 study led by Georgia State University economist Benjamin Scafidi found that single mothers -- unwed or divorced -- cost the US taxpayer $112 billion every year." -- P.51
Various studies have come up with slightly different numbers, but all the figures are grim. According to the Index of Leading Cultural Indicators, children from single-parent families account for 63 percent of all youth suicides, 70 percent of all teenage pregnancies, 71 percent of all adolescent chemical/substance abuse, 80 percent of all prison inmates, and 90 percent of all homeless and runaway children.
A study cited in the Village Voice produced similar numbers. It found that children brought up in single-mother homes 'are five times more likely to commit suicide, nine times more likely to drop out of high school, 10 times more likely to abuse chemical substances, 14 times more likely to commit rape (for the boys), 20 times more likely to end up in prison, and 32 times more likely to run away from home.' Single motherhood is like a farm team for future criminals and social outcasts.
....Many of these studies, for example, are from the 1990s, when the percentage of teenagers raised by single parents was lower than it is today. In 1990, 28 percent of children under eighteen were being raised in one-parent homes (mother or father), and 71 percent were being raised in two-parent homes. By 2005, more than one-third of all babies born in the United States were illegitimate. That's a lot of social problems coming.
...Imagine an America with 70 percent fewer juvenile delinquents, 70 percent fewer teenage births, 63 to 70 percent fewer teenage suicides, and 70 percent to 90 percent fewer runaways and you will appreciate what the sainted single mothers have accomplished." -- P.37-38
"A 2008 study led by Georgia State University economist Benjamin Scafidi found that single mothers -- unwed or divorced -- cost the US taxpayer $112 billion every year." -- P.51
So, you see the same people who don't want to pay for abortions also think single motherhood is a bad idea and do not want to pay to support the the children and mother.
More Madness.
If the mother cannot support the child (and maybe even herself), will you? Yes! You will, one way or another. Instead of protesting outside the clinic why don't you just offer to adopt all the babies? You won't because you can't, and neither can the government. If you are appalled by this, I would like to welcome you to reality. Go volunteer at the human society and get a stronger grip. Stop name calling while the adults are actually doing something to prevent what we all hate.
How does any of this change the fact that a new,unique human life is killed during an abortion?
ReplyDeleteThis is exactly what I'm talking about. Why do you still want to argue about whether abortion is good or bad? I don't think there should ever be any, but in this imperfect world we live in, many woman feel the alternative is worse. That is the choice the woman must make. It's as ridiculous as saying you are "anti-war". If I think homelessness is wrong am I "pro-wealth"? Tell me how you would like to prevent unwanted pregnancy and how you would like your government to handle the repercussions of illegal abortions and we can start a conversation.
ReplyDeleteFor the most part, I agree with your logic. However, you missed a key portion of the Planned Parenthood debate: the federal funding given to Planned Parenthood is, by law, not allowed to be spent on abortion. For every abortion performed by Planned Parenthood, they must acquire money from other sources to offset the cost of the abortion in their overall budget. Federal money sent to Planned Parenthood is spend entirely on the other (non-abortion) services which they offer. Of course, this only strengthens your overall point. But I thought you should know.
ReplyDelete"Tell me how you would like to prevent unwanted pregnancy and how you would like your government to handle the repercussions of illegal abortions and we can start a conversation."
ReplyDeleteLegalized abortion has only increased the problem of unwanted pregnancy. Shockingly, people are less likely to carefully use birth control when abortion is available as an option.
The rates of abortion skyrocketed afer legalization from less that 10,000/year to over 1 million.
That's hardly what I would call a success for those who want to reduce unplanned pregnancy.
I have 2 problems with your statistic.
ReplyDelete1. How can you tell me how many abortions were taking place if they were illegal? Even now in modern times the DEA cannot even come close to accurately telling us how many people do illegal drugs. They can only make estimates based on estimates. I believe that is what was done with your statistic, and by someone with a motive.
2. In 1960 the Census reported that only 9% of children lived in single parent families compared to 28% in 2000. I think your logic about abortions causing more unwanted pregnancy is backwards.
For better or worse society has changed. Kids grow up faster, have sex younger, are less likely to get married, less likely to stay married. This is what's causing unwanted pregnancy. You battle it with education, guidance, positive influences, and contraceptives.
You think its common for teenagers to think that it's no problem for them to get pregnant because they can just get an abortion? I don't buy it. If they were thinking that far into it, they would use a contraceptive or not have sex at all.
If you want abortions to be illegal why don't you focus on the actual facts and problems that prevent it from happening. Less unwanted pregnancy must happen FIRST. Otherwise what do you expect us to do with the million babies (your figure)? Do you have a plan for that?
You have not addressed either one of the points you quoted, so I'm not sure why you quoted them.
Mindfull,
ReplyDeleteI get my numbers on abortion directly from the source-the man who created NARAL. He later admitted that they fabricated their numbers to make abortion seem like a much more common procedure than it actually was. Using CDC data, they determined that the actual number was fewer than 10,000.
Fully 50% of all abortions take place on women who claim to have been using some sort of contraception during the month in which they got pregnant.
Throwing contraceptives at the issue won't help. Teenagers are notriously bad at taking hormonal birthcontrol accurately, and far more people claim to use condoms than who actually DO use condoms as shown by the ridiculously high numbers of STD transmission and pregnancy.
Used with 100% accuracy, a woman who is on hormonal birth control will still experience, on average, 2 unplanned pregnancies over the course of her reproductive life. The number is closer to 3 if condoms are the birth control of choice. There is no ammount of education that can change this statistic. The odds simply favor unplanned pregnancies.
Of course, most people aren't using birth control perfectly.
What should we do instead? Simple. Teach people to not sleep with someone who they wouldn't have a child with. This is the message I'll teach my children, and I think it is pretty solid advice. In this manner "unplanned" does not necessarally mean "unwanted."
Finally, I would like to point out that pro-lifers are already providing services to women facing unplanned pregnancy. Through our outreach at local CPC's we offer everything from diapers and baby clothes to help finding a doctor or getting on medicaid.
Through our outreach at maternity homes, we offer housing to a woman who may have been kicked out of her own home or abandoned by her family. These homes also offer help completeing an education and enable women to get "back on her feet."
What do abortion supporters offer? Nothing. They offer to kill her baby and send her right back to her bad situation.
Please post a link to this quote. I have already wasted too much of my life trying to find it. What I did read was that the gentleman you are referring to was a co-founder of a "pro-choice" organization. He later found religion and became a "pro-life" activist. I found many quotes of him claiming he falsified the figure of 10,000 deaths per year from illegal abortions in the 60s. Is this what you meant?
ReplyDelete"Fifty-four percent of women who have abortions had used a contraceptive method (usually the condom or the pill) during the month they became pregnant. Among those women, 76% of pill users and 49% of condom users report having used their method inconsistently, while 13% of pill users and 14% of condom users report correct use"
-http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html
Education would not affect this? Again reverse logic and I'm getting annoyed by it.
Then you lecture me on positive influence, which I already recommended as part of the solution.
Are we having a conversation or are you copying and pasting this shit from somewhere else?
Woman are not supposed to have a baby and THEN get on their feet. If you are not already on your feet then having a baby is not practical.
I think your efforts to provide single mothers with diapers, housing, and medical care are a beautiful thing and I have a lot of respect for it. However I hope you put most of your efforts into women before they get pregnant like Planned Parenthood does.
Otherwise, you are just treating symptoms and not problems.
"if God doesn't like it, it doesn't count".
ReplyDeleteit is a free country and you are right that abortions are not going to ever go away.
"those who support pro-life also support the death penalty".
Not all of us...
My son was born 3 months early and is doing very well.
When is the correct cut off date for you?
If life does not begin at conception then when?
If economic consequences are your justification then
Can you take this argument to after birth?
Your rant is well not well founded.
May the God you don't believe in find a way to bless you.